Forget Me Knot A Journey to Support Caregivers
00:00:00 – 00:05:10
Johnny ball watched his mother care for his dad for nearly two decades. A part of her journey made it clear that those who support caregivers needed more help themselves the relentless demands of care commonly lead to depression and other mental health issues. Johnny wants to change that. The forget me not crew will row nearly four thousand miles of open ocean to raise funding and awareness for those who care for dementia patients by supporting dementia uk. Admiral nurses their challenge will be long and grueling but not compared to that faced by a dementia caregiver in the uk dementia uk provides specialized dementia support for families through their admiral nurse service when things get challenging or complex for people with dementia and their families. Admiral nurses work alongside them. Giving compassionate wants support expert guidance and practical solutions that can be difficult to find elsewhere. This episode is brought to you by caregiver. Chronicles and eight week online course covering everything from diagnosis through hospice for more information. Use the link in the show notes. Welcome to fading memories. A podcast with advice wisdom and hope from caregivers who have lived the experience and survived. Tell the tale. Think of us as your caregiver. Best friend so with me today. All the way from way across the pond is johnny ball. He is with the forget me not charity. It is designed to end the silent suffering of dementia caregivers mostly in the uk. But i’m sure we can expand a little bit someday. So thanks for joining me johnny. So your mom took care of your dad for many years tell me about your dad and your caregiving journey. Yes so my dad. Got fronted dimension when i was full team. Mac i mean we didn’t know initially kinda very subtle onset sir some stuff assigns. Some sort of an ocd behavior and habits ejaculated needs to have sort of started coming in and we. We weren’t really sure what is meant. Probably when i was seventeen means fooling diagnosed and definitely before at the age tom shanklin saddam was now twenty years ago so he had yes hunts and and then he had to mention until two years ago when he passed away and and the majority of that time he lived at home. My mum and it was just because my sister. Self we guns university on my other system rather Back ceremony on singlehandedly. Careful for him. Full probably nolan probably fifteen years until it’s long time i mean as nearly law tougher laws on sarah and tools variants He was to be introspective scare him. You’re amazing awesome. But even then i mean did doesn’t end full primary care as you know grown same every single day. She still you know she can go on holiday. She just went down and look at the data. even she wasn’t enough to all the time she loves him. Most of the to worry. Also vistas right in terms of you always concerned a well-being the and worrying if it comes to bowl of marrying a happy state of mind and that’s all still there. Yeah so that was. Conical happens is really back about seeing my mum’s dedication. How tough was even though. She handled it incredibly news so stoic. Yeah it was. That serve inspired this inside this expedition. Maturity stop so. How’s she doing now. she’s doing well. Yeah crazy agree raw. She’s she goes now. I’d say sure exactly now so that it was To two hundred years ago died. Since then i guess she suggested completely to new life. Ace i suppose the even though she’s a stephanie very different way of living and in some sense of relief.
00:05:10 – 00:10:08
I suppose it’s still transitions dara. It’s interesting because you still have guilt. Like i know especially now with the holidays coming. There’s just times when i think you know. I tried so hard with my mom and like christmas. Two thousand nineteen. Our city. park is full of christmas. Trees that are decorated with different organizations or businesses. Some of them just decorate ’em however they want some decorate them with the theme like one of them was basically a pizza christmas tree so all. The decorations looked like slices of pepperoni slices of pizza. Which is kind of not super christmas. But it was very cute. I took her there because it was bright. It was outside it. You know i thought. Oh she’ll love this and it was just like she was like clueless and it was and she was honoring. I think she was having a bad day. And it’s hard knowing. That was her last christmas. We did have a really good lunch on the twenty third of december and then everything went to hell after that. So there’s interestingly enough you still have like these guilt feelings. Like i should have done more could have done more and it takes a while to get through those i think so. It’s i’m i’m finding that with myself and other caregivers that are in my position. So if you guys are experiencing that it’s pretty normal which is frustrating. But there it is so. I read on your website that the alzheimer’s society which is pretty much the mirror. Image of the alzheimer’s association here in the states found that ninety percent caregivers experienced feelings of stress and anxiety weekly more like daily probably at least sixty percent of them struggle to talk about the impact of caregiving on their lives because of feelings of guilt. It’s like. I can’t complain about what. I’m going through because my loved. One has a tea or alzheimer’s or whatever and so how can caregivers balance their needs and the needs of their loved ones. In your opinion like you know have we. Have you thought that one through as you launch charity. I think the as mansell. How things i i think the fittest into that. It’s okay to feel the way you feel. i think. Give a lot of as you just explained guilt and extreme sense of gt Which means the facebook does because the caring for fest often before themselves. That i think is important for the mental health of the unification which ben immediately impacts the wellbeing of the patient. They need to care for themselves as well. A member. the average duty of air to themselves as much as they have achieved care to the person benefitting asta and i think inaccessible and really letting mass inside. You know that that’s true. I’m giving yourself giving his a brain give yourself the option to feel how you feel and to Except that you need to care about yourself. As well is the vista But also will be trying to do is using technology to support give keg. It’s and a big audubon is gonna be a mental health technology. So for example of mental health apps identity being used recently going to help with distribution bags. A lot of k gives also busy just hanso fo with. They would is essentially a fulltime job. The have undergone find that you and i knew mental health apps imitation Love people appear gives won’t have time to the studies. Things is important. We proactive in exclaiming walls amphion to help whether they are specialist tools. Okay games on. Otherwise i’m helping distribute them so that people off themselves as well as often careful. Yeah like. I’ve experienced a little bit today. You have the best laid plans for you know you got you to the list for the day and then you get up at breakfast time. Something blows up your morning. Pretty much caregiving goes. You know you think okay. Well i’ll take my mom to the doctor or we’ll go to the park or whatever and then you know they have a different idea or they’re having a bad day and i do think that as my generation in you you must be a must be one of the old millennials. Right twenty four. I don’t know if that makes me millennials. Yeah yeah you’re in the middle so i’m gen-x when this episode comes out i’ll be fifty four.
00:10:08 – 00:15:02
I got a birthday a week. I think yes a week. And it’s like irrelevant is about this time and of the things that i have found with a podcast which obviously is technology is that a lot of caregivers. They’re older and they’re just clueless. Even run across people that are about my age. There was a gal my the showed up. She needed a support group like now today and so she showed up his back in the old days. When you could meet in person. She showed up to my support group from twenty miles away from my old hometown. And i said oh. I’ve got the perfect solution for you. My podcast and i’m china’s show her and of course. I have an iphone and android phone. So i was having troubles because i’m not familiar with that. And she has. Oh do those things anyway. And i’m like it would really help you because i talked to lake fantastic people and she just blew me off like whatever i. I don’t have time to think about a podcast mike. It’s the easiest way to get advice and information so i’m hoping as we you know. Move through my generation your generation that it won’t be sent a challenge to use technology to support our caregiving needs and is your focus with the charity mostly on mental health apps no not specifically but focuses on technology. I saw the empty We can distribute technology broadly cheaply and it also is ideas. My day job. This is my specialty network can understand how whips can for relatively low costs distributed. Old bills will cook gives in touch with the right technology. That’s going to help them. So the impact probably won’t be as great as for example to support group but the impact can be brewed. Sir podcast princeton’s what you mappin fantastic you all of this information or these impact trees from his love of people. Don’t know about the concept you’re describing. I think we push push the different types of boulder available essentially build on you just saw people should have a fax you know. How did you decide. Well tell me about okay. Well we’ve talked. We kinda roundabout it into the forget me not charity. Tell me tell me about what you’re doing to raise awareness and hopefully raise money to get all this fantastic stuff happening so the game plan is actually rode from portugal. And your and contents of europe to french. Yana which is in sacramento. So we’re gonna grow across the atlantic ocean. Agony essentially almost three thousand eight hundred miles and be three of us in the boats. We will beat a fist people. Whoever this particular passage we hope to break the record for being the fastest revenue which should be a fifty days so the pippa says two of the raised fist. Nine of capital will not to be phones onto defensively Yes that’s the game plan so why that you couldn’t have like you know done a ten k. Or marathon or an iron ban bake saying yes great. Say maybe it’ll make a day only to make sure that we raised enough money to get to charity of the floor in a substantial way. That means it could sustain itself at least a couple of years so in some sense. It’s a really difficult thing to do. But at least it’s compressed so yeah we’re gonna organizing this year and then we will. Hopefully things called Do the ro in january twenty two abandon does kind of emiko funding to really get things rolling so it would take bake sales cover funding. We intend race so we need to think something big and spelled ranker’s well i can understand why you would want to break the world record because rowing that far for more than fifty days of like a total nightmare gonna be. It’s gonna be interesting. Going is essentially clean scored. It’s just We set off butch building on bloomberg and we live in sleeping. He’s an offer and hopefully make it to the design. And how long is this boat.
00:15:03 – 00:20:05
Twenty foot just very small. Yeah it’s just yeah on the Is just about enough room to people to state rowing and the this that it end Enough of the two people cabins the stadium matt acquaintance and food in the talks in that picture will be on the social media. So you guys can all see it or you can watch the game to video as well I’m looking at this bowed. And i’ve seen this picture for quite a while. It’s incredible so one of the things you told me when we first chatted. Was you have to time this to avoid hurricanes. The relieving in january of this is that the students are times but it’s been an integral rations so with retaining the trade wings because we want to get on the wings so to learn in the right direction across the atlantic towards south america. The if we get it wrong timothy hits america. We have the caribbean been season. So he’s a pretty fine window. Have maybe children get the wins but not So hopefully we can put any january and take the wings axes america an-and get and roast enough to avoid the hurricanes mixed stocks man march plan. Then they’re all going straight through the doldrums as well so alleged things being flat. Some calm knowing toll Has freaks tools straight through the doldrums. John’s the and so. If that happens you said. This is an unsupported sale. What do you do is pull into the next port in. Wait for it to pass or there’s notebooks free so actually when you do is so this this service completely waterproof in once. You’re in the cabins. The extra climbing the cabin. Seal the ceiling shots and you sell to flow and new sits and waits until essentially get thrown around like wind bustle until the storm passes cap science just got. I’m ben. when he’s done you heard the quoted to promote you’re not selling the cruise to well. We hope that one because people we’re going to keep our fingers crossed that we’ve had tons of you know tropical storms and hurricanes this year the most ever so fingers crossed that were just kind of kicking off. We’re using up all the stories the next it will still tell me about this. The other two guys that are going to go on this crazy cruise with you increase. Greece me reminds the titanic. The titanic at least had lifeboats little rock mine. One is sack. African atkinson Eric’s in children’s hospital time So he’ll be he’ll be joining and the other is a childhood friend direction. Time off my dad when we were younger especially relevant university. He’s he’s got his own business in election in alums in arkansas sir. You’ll be joining in our. Have you guys always been sailors really super experienced at this right so the other thing is stephan. Is the guy the guy wales electricity. He is reseda younger. So he’s got experience of Have guy also has s inculcation stomach. But i i’m find the new guy to spirits and so obviously you’re not gonna row for twenty four hours straight. I hope yeah we’re gonna go to our own two hours off. So is it two guys rowing at a time or one yet. Most of the time. So it’d be bill quickly free people. Most people don’t read people because shift suggest not earning and that usually will be two people rowing for two hours in a block. A menu essentially swapped. Max you each do two hours two hours except maybe in the nighttime mobile have one throwing for four hours the other two guys get to forest leave because otherwise you leave two hours either.
00:20:05 – 00:25:01
Four israeli raffles. You could manage the whole boy. That’s oh my goodness whether you know you know i can. I’m really going to bake it. I could probably help the act. Banking section atkinson cakes. Need like you know. What half a billion cupcakes. Or something. I mean i like to bake holy salita. That might push me over the limit so once you get this charity up and running tell me. What’s the goal after that. Okay provided you survive this trip when we come back during the rolling fistful and then we go and see. Find a selection panel Build things not so be thing before we actually going started trying to just three things have media. Impact will be low research to do so research and then once we raise the funds me combat from the rare. It’ll be trying to find the right products. And whether that’s a raise on the mental health of things that’s actually more as sort of physical -nology soon Some of the Dementia patients in the home is a lot of good stuff coming. The uk miss again knows that so every such as same way as is it to put our ethics of where we have Seeking to have the most impact on the most people at the lowest cost essentially so he wants to be distributing things and as chief had to distribute softer is to distribute physical hardware is a balanced between the tracks than have people on there because of distribution seventy tease starts. So what kind of things are you looking at right now. Knowing that where the very beginning of this whole process kind of what things are looking interesting in the product side effects the technology of the products. Yeah through the main categories though considering soc the social networks not a things year that which is facebook even talking about online communities specialize in can’t in this year in the uk whether we decided to start our own community that reported very local focus. So wait until bicycle. I think that you know we’re in the. Uk still have local folks that online where people can build up friends in their local area. The facing similar problems. And i think time of Yukon always leave depends new game for you go out in to these groups of to have in your own on your Sexual buttons super the next in which you mentioned the mental health side of things and so. They’re all already loads of gaps have a amongst one been for january For this case in particular a royal defined loss things and hopefully either guess ship with one of the largest mental health school absolute. Meditation apps organic Likely specialists in billowing tech ed the final piece of conversations with people specializing physical The like of committing this week essentially have neck kind of electric pressure. Mattresses and the full setting the has to win patient Bad or if you’re sitting in separate room you can get navigations. Have been no. it’s much mop. Just the pressure carpets. Go low sensors in kentucky bit types of movements of the night not happening and thing and then further systems building stewart’s essentially invisible detective ran the homes of the airline texas picking movements around the house. If you knew someone’s wandering or not wondering said you know whether the normal behavior is happening on law and you have some kind of Some kind of tale phone the oils and information to what’s happening which Which i think we need you. Know what would it be meaningful dot dissension craft batman’s is in the. Do you think he is alerted laws on the dole without feeling installing security everywhere.
00:25:01 – 00:30:01
These they subtle very discreet. That actually sounds really good. I know some people that i’ve talked to have said you know. They have family members that get up in the middle of the night and walk out the front door and a lot of play a lot of caregivers. Say will you need a walk that you have to unlock to get out. And then other well-meaning people will say well no you can’t have that because if there’s a fire you don’t wanna have to fumble with a key or a walk and it’s like you know they get all this you know both things are good at but they counteract each other so something a little less fort knox and don’t know Tower of one prisoner over there would be nice. I’ve saw a rug. And i really wish i’d saved it. Was i think. I was scrolling through instagram twitter. Or something and you pop it on the floor at learn literally looks like a vortex hole. And i’m like something like that in front of the door would seriously prevent somebody with alzheimer’s or probably f- td from leaving because it really looked like you were gonna step into just like another dimension. It was really really interesting. Very very interesting to me is a really simple. And you know Because i know from talking to other caregivers one that works at the care home that my mom was at. They got their dad. There’s really comfortable Black leather chair and as his disease progressed. He stopped sitting in it because they kind of see that black is like a big hole and my mom had an interesting similar Challenges with light and dark shadows. It was very hard for her to tell what was what when they’re what it wasn’t like a flat visual surface. So no i yeah it is you know and because everybody’s different the different diseases affect people somewhat differently does make a challenge so if you ever need a focus group person. I’m sure i can pull together some people that have had them experiment. Yeah really. He’s up genuine years. The first step is you know. It’s such a dive. Est disease the andrew ruins experiences different. Select the right things. There’s any even if we Over successfully sponsor is still limited. Ever mckay correct we want. We want to make sure you use the money in the right lane. Focus to be say. She’s definitely be concerned. Stanton the key to finding well like what you’re mentioning with like the online community. And i think if you did an online community that was somewhat a combination of zoom. Call like what we’re doing facebook groups so you can either link up with somebody on an app. You can tell. I don’t use too many of those like what’s happened those other things. I’m just old enough and my daughter. Who’s twenty nine not. She’s like youtube and discord. I think but she messages me. That normal ways full. I message the normal text message way and occasionally see calls which is usually something big. Because she doesn’t like to talk on the phone. But what i don’t like about the facebook groups is you’ll ask a question and you’ll get like fifty sixty two hundred three hundred responses. Nobody has time to read through all that nonsense. And a lot of it when i read through. It isn’t helpful in my opinion because it’s kind of like what one person says one person says be and both are good advice. But what do you do and face to. Face is really good and i know my support group. Many of the members were are anxiously awaiting till we can actually meet again in person but a lot of them all want the option to have the meeting streamed via zoom. Which is how we do it. Currently so that if they can’t get out of the house or just tired and they don’t feel like driving over downtown whatever. Whatever is want to lay around your pajamas and talk to people. You know so. I’m hoping that the alzheimer’s association figures out how to do a hybrid version. So you can meet in person and have streaming minutes. That’s not their focus you know. The pandemic has forced organizations and companies. And you know just. We’ve had a big shift in how we do things and some of it is good and you know i mean the pandemic is awful but some of it is i think. I think we’ve learned a lot of things that hopefully are going to help. Our society is moving very very few good things.
00:30:04 – 00:35:01
In terms of adults from technology and video technology video conferences like this are incredibly valuable and obviously m sliding bias in this you my strong belief that it’s really opened the door to a lot of things with other people who’ve never would’ve gone a facetime call on zoom whilst now has on his own and she does not instead of calling eggs. That’s really cool. Because it’s essentially defending can connect. You can connect with people in a more natural way as much eleven is this is better than the phone call. And i think that in the context of kagan’s is really helpful. You get a more personal connection. There’s the insult to you and your candor is in your having johns if your active energy or if the meeting has happened again. Moore’s you call backs. So i think yeah i think that is one of the very few positive have been twenty twenty have you zoom for a little over. Two years and many of my guests are significantly older. I had one gal who was eighty and she referred to herself as a tech klutz love. Because you know they didn’t grow up with computer. I was in high school when we got our first computers. You grew up with computers. So you know it’s just adapting the technology when you haven’t used it before she was i could he’ll see i can’t remember. She was on a landline phone. And the zoom call. And i’m trying to talk earth through why she couldn’t hear me is. I think i could hear her. I forgot exactly which way it was like. I have a lot less of those problems you know. Even the eighty plus year olds are just. They’re just zoom wizards. It’s what they do all the time. So it’s it has definitely been a benefit so let’s see. I went to look at my questions really quick before. I let you go to put my glasses on to make it easier to read it quicker so i put up the picture with the go mail link. So why don’t you while. I look at my notes. I’ll let you tell everybody about the go fund me really quick. Yeah sure sir. The link on the screen is essentially probably the easiest way if you’d like to support the addition charity to do so it’s brand new. I just set it up in the phone costs so far. This is a Where stopping as today. So if anyone would be kind enough to donate go from being and it should be a simple process and this little bit moment explanation about results back on the lead to the website ribbons full information and is pleased Mi ma’am as well in the muslim. So i have one quick question once you get to france. It’s french guyana correct. Yes rowing home to nerve. That’s no good. I think we’ll be done with very long time. Able to serve. I get home. We will fly. And you’re gonna leave the boat in french guyana knowing we’re gonna shift at home and he’s shifting can say that’s not cheap either. No it’s not that we have in worth hats interesting. My only experience with an it’s not direct. My dad used to twice. He traveled to zimba zambia africa for the international vision volunteers and they had to. They would go down there and do cataract surgery so they needed surgical chairs and you know. They needed all kinds of heavy equipment and so they had to fill up shipping containers so while he was down there the first year they decided they were going to create a library for the villagers and the the ones close by the ones sort of close by and my paternal grandmother who is one hundred two and a half. It’s very proud of her efforts to collect books to fill up that shipping container to ship them to africa from northern california. Just probably not a typical shipping route. Basically it was like it’s gonna cost you x. Number of dollars to ship this container to africa.
00:35:01 – 00:40:01
You might as well fill it. So that’s my experience with shipping things across the continents those she’s I recorded it because you know. My dad has gone. And i recorded her. Telling this story for posterity and it’s really interesting. What she went through to collect books. She was a head librarian at our schools here in town. So there’s a big family connections so it’s one of these days i’ll get the video of africa and and books and get it all put together with her story. It’s about ten minutes. And i’ll be on my youtube channel but i have to have websites that don’t blow up in other things going on. I just needed some time. You know like probably you’re thinking about today have a training regimen for this journey. That’s going to be doing do so. We’re pretty much starting now So we’re gonna have to do lifting weights in a lot of wearing whenever we can. We’ll get those visiting victory. Here’s the as gets Actually on the each The yeah lots of hours sitting on the room she Just putting in easy lost eating a lot. Dang that’s not in my training plan. I can recommend brain bars. they’re their protein bars. That are specifically designed to keep you mentally alert. Which sounds like you’re going to need. I’m sure my friend from san diego would happily ship them to your in wales right here in london. Okay i don’t know why onto our in wales. I get all confused. Like i said it’s been a day off. Yeah that’s probably. I probably saw it on the website. So do you have a last pitched or last little something you want to tell me. Along the brain we view would like to donate go. Healings there but also we’re looking for all kinds of support so we are going to need for example a lot of food on his third so anyone out there any kind of support whether it’s equipment contacts in the marine industry. Any kind of expedition food supplies we also need will be Essential media and all this stuff at the moment daring whole with the rest of the crew and there aren’t enough hours in the day so if you might zero for any time accepted iridium racing. Well i’m a. I’m a photographer. That was my previous career until this year. And i’m really getting social media. So i can help you out with that injury preference you know. Hopefully since all of my travels got blown to smithereens this year and our trip to where we going taipei in june exterior right now. I’m kind of giving it a sixty forty sixty percent chance. We’re going to actually make it. It’s our rotary international convention. Two weeks in hawaii in june is here. Yeah aw that it was. I kept saying you know. I i my trip to colorado who got cancelled that was the eighteen. Th to the twenty first of march so as we all know that was ground zero for this whole craziness starting the end of april. My husband and i are supposed to do a rotary trip. To the far tip of california so as far north as you can get and still be in california and then it was quietly and so the first trip got canceled and then the second trip and i was just like yes. Why is not going to happen. I mean why would you have thirty thousand people from across the globe. Descend on a little island in the very beginning of a pandemic yet no I don’t taipei although pfizer. Did say they got a vaccine. They think’s going to hurt their. Maybe i should give them a bump that up seventy thirty. We’ll be positive. Yeah so if i if i I don’t know i’m on the wrong side of the united states to be close to your eyes but i’m sure we can work something out. I mean the travel bug is really Unfulfilled right now. Great place and telling you. I’m sure is it. Is it good in january or is that the off season with the hurricanes. We hitting in about late february. I think we’ll miss his uncomfortable. Macy’s which means you’ll be nice. House new space launches.
00:40:02 – 00:44:11
Did you have tons of the space launches but half-and-half. I did not know they did. Any space launches other than florida and texas will florida launch. Texas they lay on occasionally land in california. I think it’s the fish off the maine basis states. See how interesting. Well february’s not a great month in california. It’s wet and cold and foggy and bread. Which i know. That’s your typical weather. British saw yes. In scotland in nineteen eighty-one they had a freaking heatwave of for me seventy two degrees. That’s about the high teens. Low twenty s for you guys. You guys were all dying. And i was cold and then i came home. And it was forty degrees hotter. The hundred and ten does normal for here. That’s like thirty five for you. So my body went. What the hell. so yeah. that was quite wild. But i’m definitely ready to go back. My ancestry is scottish so time to hit time to hit back over there so you never know. Twenty twenty two. Sounds like it’s a long ways off but it’s not shot here Definitely will do that. I appreciate this chat today. That i am i will. I will help you with your social media. Get this funding. Going to really appreciate chatter. I promise i’m still in california and this is not a uk only podcast but up again. Next week our regular guest host. Dr elena will be back and we will be discussing medications an older adults. I don’t know about you but that was a huge challenge when it came to helping care for my dad but before we move onto next week be sure to check out. Forget me not that’s kate. Ot campaign dot com. You can learn all about johnny. The crew and their goal of rowing from portugal to french. Guyana i’ll be there to cheer them on. But i’m not going to help row. Your support will allow them to dedicate more time to fundraising and providing them with the equipment and resources. They need undertake that challenge. Once they’re successful with the uk fundraising. Maybe we can convince them to come over on this side of the pond on this side of the continent and help us over here in the states. please be sure to share their campaign. This podcast any of the podcast. You find helpful with friends. Family loved ones. It is our goal to support caregivers. And there’s always. I’ll be in your ears again next. Tuesday i’ve got your attention. Let me tell you about the modules in the eight week online course from caregiver. Chronicles it starts out with. What is a caregiver. Educating yourself on the diagnosis caring for a loved one and observing your loved ones religious beliefs. How to live a healthy lifestyle as a caregiver navigating the medical professionals understanding medication super important legal matters also important. The decision maker insurance community resources durable medical equipment when a caregiver is needed finding a caregiver placement in the skilled nursing facility or memory care. Residents family dynamics challenges an conflicts learning how to navigate that is probably worth the entire fee then. There’s home health hospice than planning for your loved. Ones transition be sure to check out their weekly live. Ask anything the link for that is also in the show notes.